Bad Start

Brother Gatling Gun of Desirable Mindfulness (dawningday) wrote,
@ 2005-08-04 08:40:00

Current mood:	f'in step off!
Current music:	none yet...

Bad Start
By 8:30 AM today, I was already done with people.

One of my faculty totally jumped the gun on an academic dishonesty charge, circumventing both the student's mentor and other committee member. (The student is currently completing his comprehensive examination.) While it looks like the learner's infraction is certainly egregious, it also looks like it was the first time the student had ever heard anything from the faculty - period. And there's no comments from the other members of the student's committee on this at all.

Add this to the already pending case of plagiarism I'm dealing with on another student's comprehensive exam. This one I'm already working on is a pain in the ass, as well, because the student is actually a relatively skilled plagiarizer. Most are pretty artless, but this one has actually done a little work to blend the plagiarized material into her own. That case has its own ridiculous idiosyncracies as well.

Add to this the fact I didn't get to bed until midnight. And then, while getting coffee this morning, the gf tells me how she got all pissed off at someone for not admitting they did something wrong, but she totally was just being self-righteous. Then she bitched about her cats - cats that she was totally insistent on getting. I had actually originally wanted to spend the evening with her, as she's starting the Landmark Forum tomorrow, but now, I don't want to have anything to do with her today. My string is just too short today - reticence with her this morning was a supreme act of will.

I still have to be here for at least seven hours. GAH! I think it's a big headphone day.

	because i can't stop myself from poking the bear purpleyarrow 2005-08-04 14:03 (link)
	... Has she read any of the detractor pieces on the net about Landmark? I had a supervisor that had been trying to get me involved in it and the stuff I found was pretty sketchy. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: because i can't stop myself from poking the bear dawningday 2005-08-04 19:22 (link)
	A lot of the stuff you find on the net about Wicca is pretty sketchy, too. Same for shamanism. Or any religion or program. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: because i can't stop myself from poking the bear purpleyarrow 2005-08-04 19:41 (link)

Yes, but the difference I find there is that *for the most part* prostletizing is not part of Wicca. Or shamanism. And overwhelmingly it seemed to be a part of Landmark. I mean no disrespect, seeing that you are a graduate of Landmark. But please understand that having had my grad school supervisor in the clinic I was working for not only try to push Landmark on me but also not really back off about it when I *politely* asked her to stop trying to get me to go to seminars when a) I had no money for it and b) had no time for it as a grad student left a particularly bad taste in my mouth about the whole organization. When I was working my ass off and paying for the privledge to do so, the last thing I wanted to hear from the person that I was relying on for support was that I was deliberately not trying to be a better person because I wouldn't go to this seminar. That and the fact that this seminar would be more useful than the $10,000 I had just spent going to school to learn to be a counselor. You will note that I dropped out of grad school. This certainly wasn't the only circumstance regarding why, but I can't say it didn't contribute. You seem a better person than that. And I'm glad that it has worked for you. And the fact that I haven't seen you trying to push it off on anyone else speaks volumes for how you handle it. Kudos to you. But I'm sad to say that what I read about Landmark far more fell into line with the way my supervisor behaved rather than what I've read of you. And that was why I asked. A person should at least be informed. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: because i can't stop myself from poking the bear dawningday 2005-08-04 19:55 (link)

I do understand that perspective. But I've run into Wiccans who also proselytize, even though that's not offically part of the package. Most of it, from where I stand, is a conflation on the part of the grads between the terms "enrollment" and "registration." You are encouraged to enroll people in the possibilities you create - and by this (and boy oh boy did they drive this home), they mean that you leave them touched, moved, and inspired about what you're doing. "Registration" is about getting others to enroll in the program, and while they certainly don't disencourage it, there wasn't that much about it. However, if you conflate those two ideas, it's real easy to turn into an obnoxious proselytizer. Most of the people there were totally unfamiliar with the sort of work that was being done, and I think that it would be very easy for them to take a lot of it the wrong way. For myself, it presented a lot of familiar material in a new and rather novel way. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for just anyone, and what your supervisor did was, in my mind, foolish and counterproductive. (I will say that the big trick to getting Landmark people to back off is to simply say "No." If you give reasons, they will interpret them as excuses, and that will likely be interpreted as a sign that you need the Forum even more. I chose not to register for the seminar sessions included in the cost of the Forum. When they asked me about it, they said "Were you thinking about taking them?" I simply replied, "No, I wasn't," and they dropped it.) (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: because i can't stop myself from poking the bear elphaba_of_oz 2005-08-04 21:16 (link)

That is exactly the root of my knee-jerk reaction to any mention of the Landmark forum. I don't like it when someone doesn't honor my "No." It's disrespectful. One guy I saw every single day hounded all of his friends and refused to take no for an answer. It got ugly. I don't like ugly. It's nobody's job but mine to interpret my motives. (I will say that the big trick to getting Landmark people to back off is to simply say "No." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Oh Gosh! elphaba_of_oz 2005-08-04 14:15 (link)
	This is your gfs final day as a non-brainwashed person. Save her from the Landmark forum! Make her change her mind! Tie her up and throw her in a closet! All of the Landmark Forum grads I know are obnoxious. After they complete the forum, their sole purpose in all of their interpersonal relationships is to get the other person into the Landmark Forum. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Look before you leap dawningday 2005-08-04 19:21 (link)

I'll assume you won't want to make my acquaintance any further, since I am a graduate of the Landmark Forum. To respond to purpleyarrow's comment, she is familiar with the detractors. She has still decided to do it. Most of the people I've met who are obnoxious Landmark Forum grads strike me as the sort of people who would have been obnoxious without the Forum, and generally try to get everyone into whatever they're into anyway. You can't really blame the program for who some of its participants are. And gee, all this is making me like people so much more. [/sarcasm] I should learn a lesson from seedmoon and not post anything about it... (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: Look before you leap elphaba_of_oz 2005-08-04 21:10 (link)

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. I have never met you. Through this medium you seem pretty cool. My comment was based on my past experience with a limited number of Landmark (and EST) graduates. The people I know who have gone through the program were relentless in their attempts to get me to go to an introductory session. They didn't let up thier pressure on me, or the other people in their lives, even after they had been told no very firmly and clearly. One of these people eventually ended up distancing himself from the individuals who refused to go. I don't mind a "Hey, you might find this interesting" comment every now and then. But "I don't want to be close to anyone who hasn't done the Forum" strikes me as the kind of indoctrination one gets through indoctrination into a cult. Perhaps it's just my bad luck that I've only been exposed to Landmark grads who were susceptible to that kind of thinking. I have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing, but I recognize that you may be different. You might not behave in the manner I have found so distressing in the past. Please accept my apology. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: Look before you leap dawningday 2005-08-05 00:01 (link)

I appreciate and accept your apology. From my perspective, I think that Landmark is much like any other transformative experience: it leaves an indelible mark. For people who've never accessed such power before, they tend to go a little overboard, whether it's Landmark or Christianity or anything else. In terms of the distancing, I can understand that. When I quit drinking and getting stoned, I distanced myself from the people with whom that was my only connection. Landmark really exposed the superficiality and negativity of a number of my relationships, and it did lead to a different way of approaching things. I can see how for someone who is just starting down the path of self-transformation, they'd need to distance themselves from others who don't/can't relate. If someone wanted to do the work, you could probably identify a cult that exists within the Landmark community - sort of a "Landmark fundie" thing. However, just as it's not really cool to stereotype based on the actions of a minority (or even a majority), I think whether or not a person has done Landmark, it comes down to their actions. I've met grads who don't have their lives together, and I've met people who are rabidly anti-Landmark that espouse philosophies that are not very different from what's in the Forum.